10
Sep
08

Glenn Sacks

Glenn Sacks (you will see him mentioned a few times in older posts) posted a piece I wrote on his site. It seems to be getting a bit of attention (read: hate and vitriol) which I love.

Most of the criticism stems from men feeling like I am dismissing what they are saying… in fact I am not doing that at all. I am trying to find middle ground between what I feel (I have been screwed over quite nicely by the family court system, grew up feeling like males were second class citizens, hell, one of my mom’s favourite jokes is “What is fifty men under the ocean? A start.”) and what I see those I care about going through.

In other words, I try to listen to the other side and the piece I wrote reflects that. I am also very impressed that Glenn put the piece up and can’t wait for part two, even more impressive as I single him out for criticism.

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7 Responses to “Glenn Sacks”


  1. 1 jerry
    September 10, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    My criticism has nothing to do with what you are dismissing, but rather, that you are making broad sweeping generalizations, and not reading Glenn’s blog.

    Glenn has clearly agreed with feminist viewpoints on many many occasions.

    It seems odd that you would in this post right here, tell people
    a) they are wrong for claims you are dismissing what they are saying
    b) they need to read what you wrote, because you claim you “try to listen to the other side”

    Glenn’s writers are telling you that in their opinion, and discussing your particular piece, you failed to listen to the other side, you failed to find the middle ground you sought.

    I’ve never seen Glenn or many others claim there is no such thing as sexism, or that women can’t or shouldn’t complain of sexism either because it’s gone, or because they won.

    On a related topic, you may wish to address this: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/sexism-definition/ in which a self-proclaimed feminist dictionary asserts that there can be no such thing as sexism against men, and if there was, it’s really okay.

  2. September 10, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    I do give Glenn a lot of credit for his egalitarian point of view. I still think that at times he is a bit quick to jump to conclusions about women… and I have seen lots of others doing the same.

  3. 3 TA
    September 11, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    Hi Traverse-

    I wanted to send you some info on the gender wage gap thing that arose over on Glenn Sacks’ site, but am too much of an IT Luddite to figure out how to send you an email directly- so here goes:

    Years ago, Dr. Warren Farrell, Ph.D., published a book that basically blew the claims of the feminists out of the water (Dr. Farrell is also the author of The Myth of Male Power and other excellent foundational works).

    Last year, the American Association of University Women (AAUW) published a paper on the wage gap that essentially re-hashed Dr. Farrell’s work. The AAUW paper is available on-line as a *.pdf. Check out the Executive Summary- first column, they throw out the 80%/70% statistics, backpedal saying that most of the gap can be explained by non-sexist factors (as Dr. Farrell did years ago), and then state that, even after these factors are considered, women make “less”. If you go to near the end of the executive summary, they acknowledge that it’s only 5% less one year after graduation and 10% less ten years after. They claim to not be able to explain this difference by anything other than gender bias, yet a few pages later they note female engineers make 105% as much as male engineers and call this “parity”. Those joksters! In the second column of the Executive Summary, they disparage their own data by saying it’s not accurate because it doesn’t include the (zero) wages of non-working women. Do you think that’s a sound, statistically relevant approach?

    I think many feminists just read/quote the inflamitory numbers from the first bit of the summary, and don’t want to acknowledge the truth of the underlying factors. I’ll bet, that as an IT guy, you can come up with lots of possiblities for the remaining 5-10% difference, I mean, besides rampant mysoginy (Dr. Farrell did).

    Cheers-

    (ps- since this was intended for you personally, there’s no need to post it, but feel free to do so if you’d like)

  4. September 12, 2008 at 9:17 pm

    Its good to see that you feel that you were free to post at Glenn’s site. If by chance you do find the middle ground in gender relations tell me about so I can meet you there. You sound like you want to get past all the shouting and whining about who the real victim is. If that is the case then allow me to point you to Feminist Critics. I know the name may sound negative but there is some interesting conversation about feminism and in the few months I’ve been going there I have yet to see much in the way of major disruption or flaming or fighting.

  5. September 17, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Hi TA…

    Thanks for the info. I tried e-mailing you but it bounced. I have never claimed to accept the wage gap figures, I think the closest I came was to state that I didn’t know the answer for sure but that everything I had read was leading me to believe that it was a load of crap.

    I am going to post a link to your info on Glenn’s site in the comments section because I don’t think it is fair for me to repost someone else’s work on another site and I think it is really relevant to a discussion going on there right now.

  6. 6 Norman
    September 21, 2008 at 6:53 am

    Danny,

    The vast majority of men’s rights activists aren’t claiming “victim” status. If you believe that they are, you have a distorted view of their movement.

  7. September 23, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    Well Danny,

    I have spent a bunch of time on MRA sites, and I gotta say, maybe you need to re-read the comments. Sure, some guys aren’t trying to claim victim status, but a hell of a lot are.


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